45 acp damage human body

The objective of this study was to construct a The rest of the argument as far as damage goes, should be common sense. Indeed, you and bystanders in the immediate area are much more endangered by rounds that do not penetrate sufficiently than by rounds that overpenetrate.. Browse our site today and place your order with confidence. I sure do love 45acp though. Also SOCOM has been using hollowpoint ammunition for years, but primarily against unsanctioned terrorist personnel. Bob. So logically the 45 is more effective at stopping Humans, than the 9mm, data from lethal census. Firing Modes: Semi-auto. Moreover, law enforcement shootings typically result in only one or two solid torso hits on adversaries. The main reason I now have a 9 mm is that at the time, I could not find a small enough 45 that was double action. Why do I say that? Projectile weapons work by transferring kinetic energy to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. for every day carry. Daniel, the US has generally abided by the Hague (and Geneva) Conventions and their respective protocols. On the other hand, a .22 that you can carry easily and put into operation quickly and shoot accurately is probably not a good defense gun/round because to do enough damage requires brain-shot accuracy with each shot. It is a very real possibility and one that should be considered. Head and neck shot were down on contact if the hit bone, flesh hit required another shot. Ret. This is why, when training with a firearm, you should train for the center of mass, regardless of target anatomy or angle. For gun owners, this means that, when you fire a brutally powerful weapon, its going to shove you backwards as well as fly up. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. However, caliber is at least as important and should not be ignored when choosing a weapon. I carry a Sig P226 9mm, or a Springfield 1911 in 45. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter (i.e., recoil) and he too would be knocked down. How about a 147gr vs 155 gr comparison? Most self-defense shootings take place inside 20 feet and are over in seconds; if Im out in public and shooting beyond that distance, itll probably be tough to sell as self-defense to a judge and/or jury anyway. The average criminal etc. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. The former is by far the leading reason for handgun ownership. The 45 acp caused significant damage to the human body. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. That aside, its always been my impression with any pistol cartridge, that they dont achieve the velocity necessary for expansion. For example, a shot through the side of the body must penetrate between 10 to 12 inches to hit the heart. For this reason, jacketed hollow point (JHP) ammo is the only realistic choice for those who carry a handgun for self-defense. Training, muscle memory, nerves, etc dictate to me, that the harder hitting rounds are far more apt to keep me going home in the morning. In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the Ive come to a conclusion that many people lean towards the 9 mm including the military because its easier to control and thus are more accurate, especially for a teenager fresh out of high school. Reality. Good job Chris and the rest of you but remember when you give gun advise target shooting and self defense shooting are two different scenarios and one can get you deadyou cant shoot my gun as good as me but you can shoot your gun because its the best one for you. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 450 ft/s will make a hole in, but not penetrate 4" plate glass. Thats just because most folks never have to shoot someone firing at them. I would challenge anyone to shoot a 9mm against my 45 and, I promise my 45 will be the 9mm all day everyday. I will never personally take a life if I have the chance to stop someone with a non lethal GSW. Our only requirement is that you give Ammo.com appropriate credit by linking to the original article. They ability to kill. Glock 19 only playing catch up with those guns. The Department of Defense has recently been taking a hard look at the sidearms and sidearm calibers issued to today's military personnel on the front lines. Youll shoot how you train is one, but many dont train. People have died from .22 LR in one shot. Its too small. How about a discussion of American made vs foreign made weapons for our military? But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. But a .45/70 at 1597 fps equals a .270 Win at 3200 fps ballistically on impact and follow through. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. But with my Kimber Colt 45 I hit first shot no problem and it left that watermellon in disaster. I have the perfect picture for this: Those pins stayed in place for 18 months while the bone knit. It is a poor idea to keep your finger inside the So, yes, they are looking at it with the assumption that modern 9mm JHP bullets perform very similarly to .40s&w and .45acp, and thus will move toward 9mm loadings for sidearms. Its round is designed to not only kill the attacker but also to stop him in his tracks. The officer fired three round from his 9mm Baretta 92F. My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. Plus: How to contact us. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I am a classic ). Ammunition can really change performance. So many guns so little time! The bullet that struck U.S. Representative Steve Scalise last week was traveling at somewhere between 1,100 and 2,600 feet per second. Everything from grip, shooting stance, limp wrist-ing and recoil spring pressure was examined. Surprising, I know, given the current state of affairs in DC. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. In stark contrast, the vast majority of incidents involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP resulted in gunshot victims being DRT; they dropped and expired right where they were initially shot, even with imperfect shot placement. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. If youve ever spent anytime shooting steel then you would know which one will take someone off their feet quicker. Great little weapon !!! The bear was shot in the head through the screen.it was a one shot stop but needed another round to finish him off. 9mm Luger offers greater magazine capacity and less recoil/more weapon control at a lower cost. You get the idea. That will put anything down.But if it comes time to kill a man should there be any fun in it. Among other things, this Very smart Chris ! F=MA is not applicable. very obvious. WebA 9mm -40 - 357sig -45 ACP all do about 11-13" penetration into the human body no temporary wound cavity, and the diamiter differnce is from 9mm(.355(.357 caliber)) to 11.5mm(.45 caliber). Its unlikely Id ever have to shoot at anything other than paper targets. U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. It is also of considerable general interest if for no other reason than to show how often the movie makers and novel writers make appalling blunders. To ensure fragmentation would be to make a round so fragile that it would virtually eliminate penetratration. Psychological factors play a much greater role. A tool yes but not a valid substitute. Makes no difference to me. Opinions all ! Physiologically, a highly motivated target can only be destroyed by hitting the brain or the upper spinal column. also carry a lcp ruger 380 in a desantis pocket holster, covers the trigger guard real nice. The projectile is losing velocity and arcing downward. Fun to shoot a couple of hundred rounds at the range, without soreness. I think the pain element is still to much with paint balls for Obamas new policy I think dart guns with the rubber suction cups would be more his speed. The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. It has never failed me and conceals extremely well. IMHO, everyone of us is different in all ways from head to toe and mostly including the brain and fitting a handgun is different for all. NATO settled for the 9mm as a general service handgun cartridge after the war in part based on the testimony of a whole bunch of old SS guys whod served on the Russian Front. I totally agree about shot placement. You may be knocked down and have to squeeze off a once and last shot to save you life. This reasoning may not make sense to many of you, but it does to me. Having had lots of time with all 3 (9mm, 40 s&w and 45acp) yes the 9 is easier to fire and carries more ammo but in my experience you need that extra ammo to stop the threat. Whats more, for those who are considering purchasing a firearm for home defense, but have not yet done so, it is important to know what kind of firearm is appropriate for your needs. I just bought a S&W M&P 9 Shield. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. 158 gr 0.38" Special P and 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullets will penetrate both sides of a human skull. I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. View our Terms of Service If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc. For members of the hand-cannon clique, toting a weapon loaded with anything less is just asking to be shot or killed by street punks who are feelin lucky.. Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. Then you missed. (stress free situation) I also have a sig, p38 and carry that when its warm out.hightly concealable in a alien gear holster. Bullet coursing from behind the knee to my heel. Pretty broad pattern where adrenaline can also make hands shake. Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. The .357sig does have very impressive ballistics. Really late to the discussion. I doubt a .45 would have allowed that.also know a guy who took 10 shots of 9mm at close range in a robbery and survived and is healthy and surfs, shooter must have had terrible aim. Copyright 2023 Any round can accomplish that, even the much-maligned .22. Generous readers sustain our work. Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. 9mm and 45 ACP are popular for all the reasons listed above. JavaScript is disabled. Missing it not an option. Even later to the conversation but figured Id throw my ring in the hate. Again this is my opinion and it is based on personal COMBAT EXPERIENCE. A little back ground, for almost 17 years that I carried a badge I carried a S&W 6 357 on a K frame as my service carry. This is why officers typically carry as many shoulder weapons as possible in their cars. Ruger already dominates the American handgun market, and they are very profitable, so it may not have been worth it to them. who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? While this research is geared toward law enforcement officers, it cuts through the confusion, and provides common-sense, scientifically supported principles by which the effectiveness of self-defense ammunition may more generally be measured. Be Safe Out There. 3 more replies -8w7- 13 hr. 45 guy and .357 mag lover . You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World They're just as important as the gun that fires them. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. A round put through the central nervous system of a target is likely to be incapacitating regardless of the caliber chosen. In combat the one thing that does count is having more capacity, whether you miss or have more threats to neutralize, more capacity is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Para Ordnance 12-45, officer size 1911 .45acp with 12 or 14 rd mags. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. Tissue inside the human body is remarkably elastic, even vital organs such as the lungs, bowels or circulatory system. WebAs shown in Fig. This is exactly what I said above. The absolute best thing that anybody can do, find a pistol that suits you that you like, get a high capacity round, and train yourself in situational awareness so you dont have to worry about shooting somebody on accident. The difference can be seen with pistol rounds, as well. and have shot that enough also to hit well with it. Due to the heavy load some people with both types of weapons had malfunctions as the slide was moving too fast causing failure to feed. Look for a box or option labeled Home Page (Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari) or On Startup (Chrome). With that in mind The most lead I can force through the air, the better. I was shot with a 45acp in my right leg. We were trained with a .45, to protect the patient. Theres also the reaction of a surprise. Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. Heating effects, occurring mostly around 2.45 GHz (which is the frequency used in microwave ovens) Ionizing effects, which can damage human body and cells; Here is a picture of how the radiowaves penetrate the human body according to the frequency. Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. With the way things are going today I decided it was time to carry again. I have read how the 124gr 9mm ammo used by NATO does not do its intended job. Cool story for real. For you to dissect their writings may be fun but not productive. Even long range shots! Hit your enemy Quickly and Hes Dead. Once you run out of rounds, youre done. No lab test can tell you how likely a round is to drop an assailant, but they can tell you how destructive a round is upon impact, which is the best metric youre going to get. 15 round magazine is better than a 7 round magazine. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy Wellcome L0024127.jpg 1,080 1,787; 799 KB. The HRP is concerned with long-term health consequences of radiation exposure such as cancer, as well as adverse effects to the central nervous and cardiovascular systems. All animals died pretty much on location. Type of ammo, stopping power, number of shots, shot placement, kick back, does the gun fit your hand, and whether your cheap crappy gun jams on you these are all part of the equation. In this dangerous time period, an officers adversary can continue his deadly actions against an officer. This was an interesting discussion. Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. Thats why were here right? I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. You can either hit a target or not that simple. round, you can see all three effects. Now thats hilarious. And thats hardly re-enacting a self defense scenario. I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. It is also logical to assume that when the larger round enters a major body organ, the negative impact upon that organ will be more significant. So, is the 9mm the ultimate handgun around? It is all in the throat (Leade) and where the bullet contacts the rifling. I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and dont care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ. All this scientific garbage really sounds great, but if you need fifteen rounds to eliminate a threat you got real bad aiming habits. This study is still referenced time and again for its information about wounds inflicted by grenade and shell fragments, but what it says about handgun bullets doesnt fit the bigger r always better narrative, so that parts been buried and forgotten. While typical SKS rifles do not qualify as assault weapons because they have a fixed magazine and stock and lack a pistol grip, Hodgkinsons gun would have met the criteria. I guarantee with proper shot placement, either round will do. It has been reported by Heritage about how there are a number of personal protection gun uses that make the news in any given month, but are given a tiny fraction of the attention that mass shooters and other violent gun criminals receive. Its a freaking tarantula. the article mentions that where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Okay, I have to give them props on this part of the statement because this is 100% correct. However, at 15 feet in your living room that is a concern regardless of what you are using unless you have a 22 or a 380. Oh boy, that could start a whole new area of discussion 1911 vs 1926, most common bullet weights, etc. My next handgun will be either a Ruger SR 1911 or a Kimber 1911 clone. Of course there are but in general the .45 with its bigger slower round is the better choice for knockdown power. I read a study from an Army medic regarding one shot kills from a handgun. But for those of us that like to aim and make good hits Ill take the 45 as a primary with a compact 9 as a backup. Thats the secret. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) If one of these conditions occurs, the human body should induce a counterbalance in the form of an opposite condition. Open the tools menu in your browser. During 15 years of LE, I have seen literally dozens of gun shot wounds. Now for long engagements that are seen more in military ops and where fire suppression matters most I prefer 9mm. What do you think of the Shield or do you know anything about it? The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it hits its target with more energy. Now, I read the officers story. And here is where we get to one of the most important distinctions between military/LE and self-defense use; its also where I have some practical experience, having twice been the victim of home invasions, as well as having to defend myself in public in 4 other separate incidents. Q-do you think your mind will change about +P in a 45 cal? The Marine Corps Times is not published by the Marine Corps. And since the FBI was the agency who failed in the first place well, why follow thier blind lead? Just some REAL world observation not keyboard commando stuff. I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. The same companies make the 45acp and other calibers! In other words, negative acceleration and a non-linear path are both occurring. Nobody I know whos been in the service liked the M9. 9mm, I carry 147 grain Hp. It's the most comprehensive and trusted online destination for law enforcement agencies and police departments worldwide. You have renewed my faith in man. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. It also drops in Air Drops, rarely as Tier Chest loot, or very rarely spawn as Tier World loot. Battlestar Galactica. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. All rights reserved. Id rather be hit by a small rock than a big one. I like all of them. Temporary cavity is often grossly overrated as a wounding factor, but has historically been one of the primary methods for measuring effectiveness. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. Your shots have to count. Source: When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. This whole conversation for over 2+ years is hilarious. Ultimately, your selection of a caliber should be based first on the penetration, and second on the unexpanded size of the round. We enjoy our 2nd amendment and want it protected and were prepared to give our life to defend our country. I am a Force Recon Marine with 10 years of advanced military training and have served 7 separate combat tours. I do like the capacity of the 9mm for in town carry and lighter weight than my Govt model 45s. WebIn a perforating wound, the bullet creates an exit wound as it escapes the body. The one thing Ive learned and seen over a lot of shooting is that a 9mm with FMJ bullets is mostly useless. I have shot many different calibers. That meant that the tip didnt just bore straight through him, but rather that the whole length of the projectile rotated over and over through Scalises body, ripping a wider hole and distributing a bigger shock wave throughout his bones and tissue. The two most important factors to consider, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavitation. Durys Gun Shop has served San Antonio and the South Texas region for half a century. Very accurate and deadly, The bullet travels at 1450 FPS. Unfortunately, there is no valid, scientific method of analyzing actual shooting incidents. Ive never liked Glock its sure a well made gun but definitely NOT the best gun Ive shot. to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. I spent FAR more money letting her out every pistol they had for rent than I did purchasing her final choice. So modern ammo IS NOT the reason to switch back to the 9mm. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. In the black powder days hollow points had not been invented yet and most bullets were round nose lead so the larger heavier bullet hit harder. I shot 8 watermelons, 4 for each gun. We look forward to serving you. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. Here is the money point: assume you will only get ONE shot at the perp. AT 500 fps a 230 grains projectile would only have 127 foot pounds of energy leaving the muzzle. Dr. Leana Wen, a trauma surgeon and the health commissioner for Baltimore, wrote a column in the New York Times about the especially devastating effects of expanding rounds: often pulverizing bones, tearing blood vessels and liquefying organs. She remembered one young man who was admitted to her emergency room with an abdominal wound from a hollow-point round. I can say with great certainty that many animals dont just simply fall over and die.

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