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Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. My gun just went off! Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. is the manual safety a kit you add? Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. But breaking news here, skippy. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. But that's not working in the P320, he said. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. (It wasnt my gun). Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. L. LRRifleman . D. Zero in the affirmative. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Bravo. But this time, the sound bites used were different. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Canadian soldier. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. They are being replaced with Glocks. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. No autographs, No self taken pictures. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. And have the dropping 320 go off? Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. 3. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Legal Penalties. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. It did not originally have this. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Ron, Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. . You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. That could happen easily. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. I also have a manual safety. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. About $300. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. BAM. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. And thats just my opinion. brakes, remember? Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. there is no better. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Excellent work. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. (unless theyre SWAT or something). Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Because its flat out bull**it. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Time will tell if no. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Asking for a friend. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Liberal, Conservative. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. I dont own a P320. . As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. No picture for me. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I still own them all. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Where is this lightning striking twice? Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Fair enough. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. The Hide Armory. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. The new guy sucks. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind.